Dr. Will Willimon Helped Me See the UMC Schism Differently
When I sat down with Dr. Will Willimon for this episode of The Last Service Podcast, I knew the conversation would be both sharp and pastoral. Willimon has a gift for saying hard things with clarity and even a little humor. He’s been a bishop in the United Methodist Church, he teaches at Duke Divinity School, and he’s written more than 70 books so when he talks about the church, I listen.
His new book, The Church We Carry: Loss, Leadership, and the Future of Our Church, begins with the story of his own home congregation in South Carolina. A once-vibrant downtown church decided to disaffiliate from the denomination, and Willimon uses that story as a lens to reflect on the wider decline of mainline Christianity.
What struck me most in our conversation is how much more complicated the UMC schism is than many of us want to admit. It’s easy to frame the whole thing around debates on sexuality, but as Willimon points out, membership decline and governance problems were already eroding trust long before inclusivity became the lightning rod issue.
We also talked about the church’s fading ability to handle conflict. In our culture, healthy debate has become almost counter-cultural. Yet Willimon made a compelling case that the church should be the best place for difficult arguments. He reminded me that Paul’s letters are full of conflict and that we need to learn how to argue faithfully, then still meet one another at the Lord’s table.
And then there’s the challenge of truth. In an age of gossip, conspiracy theories, and viral misinformation, communicating truth is harder than ever. But Willimon insisted that pastors and congregations must be relentless in telling the truth, naming falsehood, and resisting the easy path of rumor.
These threads: decline, conflict, truth-telling, are not just Methodist issues. They’re challenges every congregation will face in some form.
I left the conversation with Willimon both sobered and strangely encouraged. He reminded me that while denominations rise and fall, the truth of the gospel is resilient and that Jesus is Lord. The church carries us and we, in turn, carry the church, but Jesus determines the direction.
